People who patronized Grand Junction Red Rock dealerships are warning others shopping for vehicles locally that the dealerships used shady techniques to cheat them, or attempt to cheat them, out of thousands of dollars without their knowing.
Customers say Red Rock inflated prices on their contracts far above the prices the dealership had advertised for their vehicles, and added expensive extras, like extended warranties, service agreements, gap insurance, key insurance, antibacterial treatment, and other items to their contracts without asking or telling them. Many report that their digitized signatures were applied to contracts that had unapproved items added without their knowing. Some people even found their signatures had been forged on contracts. Customers also found the dealership had roped them into expensive financing without their realizing what was happening, and that as a result they were saddled with interest rates of 11.7% to 30% on loans they weren’t aware they had applied for. One woman said she and her husband had to get second jobs to make ends meet after signing a blank loan document at Red Rock Nissan, thinking they were getting a loan for $17,000. Instead, they got roped into paying for a $30,000 loan at an interest rate of 12.49%, AND an extended warranty they weren’t told the price of.
According to the Daily Sentinel, Grand Junction’s Red Rock franchises are part of the Tim Dahle Automotive Group out of Salt Lake City and Murray, Utah.
The Tim Dahle dealerships appear to be rife with aggressive and deceptive sales techniques that have led to many scathing reviews. A related dealership, Tim Dahle Nissan of Murray, Utah, for example, has 196 Yelp reviews, of which 135 are one-star reviews with detailed, angry critiques. Of 20 customer reviews on the Better Business Bureau website, all are one-star reviews with extensive complaints. The Red Rock/Tim Dahle Auto Group chain now owns five dealerships in Grand Junction selling Nissan, Kia, Honda, GMC and Hyundai, as well as used cars.
Forged signatures, adding thousands in extended warranties & other add-ons to customers’ contracts without telling them (the iPad Trick)
Last spring, Jesus Acevedo, owner of a local roofing business, went to Red Rock Hyundai between Grand Junction and Fruita to buy a new truck, bringing his old truck to trade in. He chose the truck he wanted and proceeded to purchase it, but Mr. Acevedo wasn’t able to see the contract for the deal until he got to the Sooper Credit Union, where he went to apply for financing. The Sooper Credit Union obtained Mr. Acevedo’s contract from Red Rock Hyundai and when Mr. Acevedo finally saw it, he was astonished to see Red Rock had added a $10,000 extended warranty to his contract without asking or telling him, and Mr. Acevedo also noticed that his signature had been forged on the contract.
(Full disclosure: Mr. Acevedo took photos of the forged signature, and his own, and showed them to me side by side, and the two were completely different.)
He pointed this out to the Sooper Credit Union loan officer, who then helped Mr. Acevedo get out of the deal at Red Rock Hyundai, and Mr. Acevedo went back to the dealership to retrieve his trade-in and discuss what had happened with his contract.
Red Rock Hyundai quickly cancelled Mr. Acevedo’s contract and directed him to Red Rock Nissan on Highway 6 & 50. Once there, Red Rock Nissan offered Mr. Acevedo more money for his trade-in and gave him a better offer on a nicer truck than the one he tried to buy at Red Rock Hyundai. But Red Rock Nissan also asked Mr. Acevedo for something else: they wanted him to sign a form promising he wouldn’t sue Red Rock about the problems he’d had at the Hyundai dealership.
Mr. Acevedo was just getting started on his busy season for roofing. He just wanted a new truck, and didn’t want any hassles. He figured Red Rock had made it up to him by giving him more money for his trade-in and a nicer deal on a better truck, so he signed the papers, called it good and drove away in his new truck.
Playing tricks with digital signatures, hiding contracts from customers’ view
Four months later, Mr. Acevedo’s friends, Marcio and Michelle Mondragon, were worried that they had gotten into deep financial trouble after going to Red Rock Nissan to buy a new truck.
The Mondragons had seen an ad on Red Rock’s website for a new 2022 Nissan Frontier for $46,100 and went to the dealership to buy it. Mr. Mondragon brought $20,000 for a down payment on the vehicle, so they would only have to finance $26,100 before taxes and fees — or so they thought. The Mondragons, who both speak English as a second language, knew they needed to look over any contract before finalizing a deal on the vehicle, but they never got the chance.
The Red Rock Nissan sales person got some basic information from the Mondragons and then handed them an IPad and told them to sign their names and initials on the screen. The Mondragons signed as instructed, noting that there was nothing else on the IPad screen.
Before the Mondragons knew it, their signatures had been electronically populated into all of the places on the contract where signatures were required, and the deal was done, without them ever being able to see even one full page of their contract. The salesperson handed the Mondragons a USB drive with their paperwork on it, so they were unable to see the contract while they were at the dealership. The Mondragons also didn’t recall filling out an application for financing.
When they got home, the Mondragons put the USB drive into their computer to see what was on it, and they were horrified:
Red Rock Nissan had hiked the price of their truck from the $46,100 in the ad to $57,940 on the contract, and added $3,000 for something called “Portfolio,” which the Mondragons found out later was an extended warranty they didn’t want, and didn’t know about. After sales tax, license, registration, delivery and handling fees and a charge for “worry free maintenance” were added, Red Rock Nissan had charged them a whopping total of $65,330.11 for their new truck. Moreover, the Mondragons found they had been roped into a 75-month loan with an Atlanta-based lender, Global Lending Services, at an interest rate of 11.7%, even though Michelle had excellent credit and likely would have qualified for a much lower rate elsewhere. The financing disclosure form on the USB showed the total the Mondragons would be paying for their truck by the end of their 75 month loan, including their $20,000 downpayment, would be $84,429.50 — all for a truck advertised at $46,100, and on which they had put down $20,000 cash.
Clawing back money
Worried about what they had gotten into, the Mondragons told Mr. Acevedo about what happened to them at Red Rock Nissan. Mr. Acevedo, who had told me about his experience with the Red Rock Hyundai dealership in the spring time, contacted me and told me what had happened to the Mondragons at Red Rock Nissan. We all decided together to confront the dealership and try to get the Mondragons at least some of their money back.
On Friday, September 16, 2022, the Mondragons, two of their friends, Mr. Acevedo and I went to Red Rock Nissan and sat down with the general sales manager, Collin Jones, to talk about what the dealership had done to the Mondragons.
First we brought up the way Red Rock Hyundai had treated Mr. Acevedo earlier that year, adding the $10,000 extended warranty to his contract without telling him, and forging his name on his contract. Mr. Jones quietly admitted, in front of this room full of people, that he was aware of what had happened to Mr. Acevedo, and he admitted that forging Mr. Acevedo’s signature had been a crime. Then we talked about how Red Rock Nissan had hiked the price of the Mondragons’ vehicle far beyond the price the dealership had advertised it for on their website, and added a $3,000 extended warranty to their contract without telling them. We pointed out it was starting to look like Red Rock dealerships were systematically exploiting Hispanic customers, or customers they thought didn’t speak English very well. But Mr. Jones vehemently denied the dealership was targeting any group, and claimed they had simply made a “mistake” on the Mondragons’ contract. Mr. Jones agreed to refund the difference between what the dealership had advertised for the truck and the amount that was “mistakenly” put on the Mondragons’ contract — an $11,804 overcharge, plus $623.97 in sales tax, and the $3,000 warranty. It took weeks of hounding with follow up calls, check-ins, reminders and emails to get the dealership to follow through on its promise, cancel the warranty and fully refund the Mondragons’ money. Ultimately Red Rock sent checks totaling $15,463.97 to Global Lending Services, the lender that held the lien on the Mondragons’ truck, to be applied to the Mondragons’ loan.
But the Mondragons’ nightmare wasn’t over yet.
They still had to register their new truck at the DMV.
Red Rock Nissan had sent the paperwork for the Mondragons’ truck to the DMV with the incorrect $57,940 sale price on it. The inflated price was going to greatly increase what it would cost the Mondragons to register their truck. The Mondragons knew if they paid the higher fee to register their truck now, they’d be paying hundreds more to re-register it every year for the next ten years.
The DMV supervisor said the only way to fix the problem was to have Red Rock Nissan send a written request to the DMV to recall the erroneous paperwork and send them new paperwork with the correct price on it.
We told Red Rock Nissan about the DMV supervisor’s instructions, so they could fix the problem and the Mondragons could register their vehicle for the correct price and avoid a massive overcharge.
But the dealership balked.
Red Rock’s Finance Manager, Benson West, refused to correct the paperwork they had sent to the DMV.
“We’ve done enough by refunding the money,” West said, adding that it would be “impossible” to change the paperwork. He said they wouldn’t do anything else, that the paperwork on the truck was a done deal and there was absolutely no way it could be changed.
Refund check from Red Rock Nissan for “price discrepency” [sic] for the Mondragons’ truck, made out to Global Lending Services, the lender the dealership had arranged for their financing.
The Mesa County District Attorney’s Office intervenes
Red Rock Nissan stuck to that line until we sought help from the Mesa County District Attorney’s Consumer Protection unit. We had been keeping the D.A.’s office apprised of how Red Rock had treated Mr. Acevedo and how they were treating the Mondragons throughout their vehicle purchase. We explained to the D.A.’s office that we had gotten the dealership to refund the amount the Mondragons were overcharged — essentially an admission of the overcharge — and that the dealership was now refusing to send corrected paperwork to the DMV so the Mondragons could register their truck for the correct price. We provided the D.A.’s investigator with dates, names of who we talked to, the amounts of transactions and refunds and other details he needed to understand what was going on.
James Cannon, the District Attorney’s investigator, then called Red Rock Nissan and spoke to Mr. West about the dealership’s failure to submit correct paperwork to the DMV for the Mondragon’s truck. Shortly after that call, Mr. West changed his tune, and in an October 18, 2022 email he wrote:
I was looking through the paperwork we sent to the DMV and I noticed that there was a clerical error on the Title application where it was showing the MSRP as the purchase price, which its not. We will get the corrected Title application sent out to them so they can work the registration numbers off of the correct value.
Red Rock then sent the DMV the corrected paperwork for the Mondragons’ truck showing a $38,100 MSRP, the MSRP that was actually on the truck’s window sticker. After that, the registration fee for the Mondragons’ truck dropped from $1,011 to $709.
The Mondragons then quickly refinanced their truck with the Rio Grande Credit Union at an interest rate of 3.8%, down from the 11.7% loan the Red Rock dealership had arranged for them, lowering their monthly payments from $859/month to about $550/month, and for one year shorter of a loan term.
A happy ending, but what happened to to Mr. Acevedo and the Mondragons appear to be features of how Red Rock dealerships operate.
Evidence indicates that the deceptions Mr. Acevedo and the Mondragons encountered in dealing with the Red Rock dealerships aren’t a fluke or a “mistake,” as Collin Jones indicated. Rather, they are institutionalized behavior at Dahle-family owned dealerships. Loads of reviews on Google Reviews, Yelp, Cars.com and the Better Business Bureau confirm these dealerships are rife with deception, and that they have been doing to many others exactly the same things they did to Mr. Acevedo and the Mondragons:
The IPad deception that Red Rock Nissan used to cheat the Mondragons traces back to dealerships owned by Dahle family of Utah, which also owns Grand Junction’s Red Rock dealerships
Ownership information from the Colorado Secretary of State’s website shows Red Rock Nissan’s registered agent is Steven T. Dahle of Murray, Utah, where Tim Dahle Nissan is located. Murray is 8 miles south of Salt Lake City. Steven T. Dahle doesn’t live in our community. He’s registered to vote in Salt Lake County, Utah.
Steven Dahle is operations manager at Tim Dahle Nissan in Salt Lake City. Tim Dahle is listed as the C.E.O. of Tim Dahle Nissan.
Tim Dahle-associated dealerships in Grand Junction:
- Red Rock Kia
- Red Rock Hyundai
- Red Rock Nissan
- Red Rock GMC
- Red Rock Honda
Tim Dahle family-owned dealerships in Utah:
- Tim Dahle Ford/Spanish Fork & Murray, Utah
- Tim Dahle Automotive Group, Murray, Utah
- Tim Dahle Imports, Murray, Utah
- Tim Dahle Infinity, Murray, Utah
- Tim Dahle Nissan, Bountiful, Utah
- Tim Dahle Nissan, Murray, Utah
- Tim Dahle Nissan of Southtown, South Jordan, Utah
- Tim Dahle Used Car Center, Murray, Utah
- Tim Dahle Mazda, Murray, Utah
- Tim Dahle Mazda Southtown, Sandy, Utah
The Dahle family has to be fully aware of the deceitful tactics their dealerships are using, and they must approve of them, since there are plenty of negative reviews that outline these exploitative tactics and they go back as far as four years or more. So all the dealership owners, partners and managers have had plenty of time to find out about them, and if any of them had wanted it to stop, it would have stopped.
But these fraudulent practices persist, with the apparent approval of the dealerships’ owners, and the tactics Tim Dahle-owned dealerships use to exploit customers appear to be ingrained into the dealerships’ behaviors, if not their policies, so be forewarned.
What can be done about these problems?
Many of the people who have reviewed Red Rock dealerships urge people to shop somewhere else — anywhere else — for a new vehicle, even it if means you must drive hundreds of miles. Others warn that if you do shop at Red Rock dealerships, demand to see all your completed sales and financing paperwork in full before signing anything. Insist on getting hard copies, and sign them in your own hand, with a pen. Refuse to use the dealership’s IPad signature system or let them get ahold of a digital copy of your signature. If any prices on the contract are different from what you were promised before signing, or if they add items to the contract that you don’t want and they didn’t tell you about, don’t sign anything, and walk out. Don’t be pressured to use the dealership’s financing, no matter what they say. It will be the most expensive by far. Instead, arrange for your own financing from a source of your own choosing, like your own bank or credit union, before you start shopping for a vehicle. If the salesperson says they have to charge you a fee if you pay in full for your vehicle up front because you aren’t using their financing, walk out immediately. If the dealership salesperson pressures you in any way, for example by telling you the deal will only be available for a few hours, or that you have to sign for a higher price because someone else wants to buy the car, or you will incur an extra charge for not using their financing, or that the dealership has some kind of internal policy that says in order to get the price the car was advertised at, you must use dealer-supplied financing, walk out immediately and write a review on Google, Yelp, Cars.com, Better Business Bureau, etc. to document what happened to you and warn others about the dealership’s behavior.
Take action to stop shady dealings. Report all scams and rip offs to authorities.
If you’ve already fallen victim to any of these or other schemes at Tim Dahle or Red Rock dealerships, or if you almost became a victim and caught it before you got roped into a bad deal, write down as many details as you can about what happened — dates, times, places, names, prices, who said and did what, etc. — and file a formal complaint about it with as many of the following entities as you can, as soon as you possibly can:
- The Colorado Department of Revenue Division, Investigations — Auto Industry Division.
- The CO Dept. of Revenue Auto Industry Division complaint page is here.
- File a complaint with the Colorado state Attorney General’s Consumer Protection office at the link below. Referencing the following report number, as they are now investigating the case of Red Rock dealerships:
REPORT #: 00040709
- The Mesa County District Attorney’s Consumer Protection Unit. Part of the D.A.’s job is protecting people from dishonest businesses. The Mesa County D.A. Consumer Protection Unit phone number is (970) 244-1730. Compile detailed information about what happened to you: which dealership was involved, the first and last names of all people you dealt with, dates, times, amounts involved, advertisements you responded to, contracts with final prices on them, etc. If possible, take photos or make copies of contracts, invoices, bills of sale, financing forms or any suspected forged signatures to have as evidence.
- Leave reviews on sites that alert others to bad businesses, like Yelp, Google Reviews and the Better Business Bureau.
- Confront the dealership directly about any deception or fraudulent actions and tell them you want your money back.
If you’ve already been cheated, don’t lie down and take it.
Return to the dealership as soon as possible with all your documentation. Demand to see the person in charge, tell them what happened to you and who did it, and demand satisfaction and honest and fair treatment. Then keep hounding the dealership until you get satisfaction. Don’t be so embarrassed about getting swindled that you don’t take action about the problem. Learn from it, take action to fix it, demand satisfaction and alert others to the scam.
Red Rock dealerships will keep exploiting people like this as long as people lie down and let it happen to them, and don’t take any action to stop it. If we want to protect our community from unscrupulous businesses like this, we all have to take action to stop this kind of exploitative behavior.
–Read this detailed complaint about Red Rock Nissan and Benson West (pdf) from an attorney in Carbondale, Stephanie Bergner, dated 11/2/22, about her experience of purchasing a Nissan Leaf at the dealership.
On March 14th, 2023, my wife and my mother in law tried purchasing a vehicle. This dealership finance department took it upon themselves to change the deal from financing them to trying to finance myself and my mother in law. I did not nor did my wife give them permission to run my credit on this particular day or for this particular deal! When my wife brought this up to the sales lady the sales lady told her they needed my income to back the deal. I dont care what was needed the fact of the matter is they did not have permission to run my credit for this day or deal! I am currently looking into what kind of action I can take against them for this being done. This was done at Red Rock Hyundai
I too have been treated Unfairly by Red Rock dealership in Grand Junction. Trying to buy out my lease car has proved to be impossible. They have failed to provide me with a pay out figure per the lease agreement terms. Guess I am forced to turn in the vehicle, but not sure if it’s safe to sign anything they ask me to. Is there another way to buy out w/o going thru dealership? Advice please,,,,,
Contact your lien holder, the one you’ve been making your payments to, and buy it directly from them after they quote you a full payoff price
Easy fix go to kiafinance.com/lease-end-overview all your answers are there.
please KEEP ME INFORMED.
KIND REGARDS TIMOTHY CREEL
Both my spouse and I had issues with them a little over a year ago. The vehicle I purchased had a clogged catalytic convertor. They tried to lie and say I couldn’t tell that they reset the check engine light and said it was safe to drive with a clogged cat. I went rounds with them before they fixed it.
This same thing happened to me at a large branded dealership in Denver! I found out it is rampant at many large dealerships!
Erin, please file a complaint with the Colorado Attorney General here: https://coag.gov/file-complaint/
This was for a summer 2018 purchase. I tried filing complaints with the CO Dealership Licensing Board. Just going to an attorney for a free 1hr consultation got me further. The dealership had a new GM that came on after my purchase. I settled out of court in March 2019…. full refund of fraudulent warranties (that they had forged my signature on) that went back towards my principal. And for unforeseeable financial damages, I asked for an additional $6000, and for the time I wasted on it, I asked for new tires, and they gave it to me.
I just wanted to comment that this happens at several dealerships, and that everyone should look at all paperwork from all dealerships with a fine tooth comb. It took the dealership 6 mos to get me my final paperwork after several requests, and when they finally gave it to me, it was 17 pages with my signature redacted everywhere (cuz they forged it). I asked my bank for their version…. it was twice as many pages and unredacted. Lesson here: Get the final paperwork from your bank in addition to the dealership.
What an amazing piece of investigative journalism. Way to go!
Tom Wills – North Fork Merchant Herald – Hotchkiss
Wow, thanks Tom!
anne: continued thanks — i’m “j kay” whom you (& yer guy) yoosta know. i’m glad i purchased from tony F BEFORE the redrox thing happened — and (well, i should say “no name mentioned”) — when i talked to him about the transfer of dealership, wanted to talk about it … hmmm…
I know who you are, Teofilio Tenedor-del-Diablo. Good to hear from you. Tell Tony to call me.
Yes service is corrupt also at Red Rock Kia. They messed up my car starter I just had installed. They didn’t hook it up properly and my car died within a week. The manager told me it was there fault. Then the manager sent me a template that he wanted me to fill it out. He told me on the phone he needed a good review so he can get a raise. He told me he would give me a tank of gas or some other deal. I have the txt message. The overcharge for everything.
I feel this! Back in 2017 I purchased a Toyota Corolla from red rock Nissan. I traded in a Chevy HHR and was able to make payments on my down payment. I was told I was approved for a loan by myself with a high interest rate, and a certain payment by then left with a car and drove around for about a month and called to ask, when are my payments due? Who’s my lender? The response I got was that they had sent my information in. Finally, and a half past and I called who they said my lender was, which was Westlake financial. Westlake financial told me that they had no record of the vehicle and no record of me on their file. I called the dealership they had no idea what was going on so they sent my stuff. I called Westlake again, and they told me that my application defaulted because red rock Nissan failed to provide the financial information that I gave to them to give to the lender. I then got an angry call from their finance manager at the time saying that I needed to come back in and refinance and reapply and we probably have to come up with a cosigner and a bigger down payment . Meanwhile, this is months later and they’ve already taken my trade and sold it so I was stuck in a car that I did not technically have the right to be driving essentially or red rock. Nissan didn’t even have the right to be selling it. So I ended up having to go through loops get a cosigner. My interest rate was higher.and my payment was higher. I drove around and put miles on the car and didn’t make my first payment for seven months because of something that red rock Nissan did. So I lost value and still had to pay the same value for the vehicle, even though odometer readings were incorrect, etc.. I then wasn’t able to even register my car because the DMV never got the paperwork from red rock Nissan. So I wasn’t even allowed to register the car.. I even asked for them to call me when the paperwork is ready, and I would take it down to the DMV for myself and they told me that they would just do it. Come to find out that they didn’t even have possibly full ownership of the car, because it was sold in a divorce deal and only half of the parties had signed their power of attorney over for the vehicle. I’m not making assumptions, but they said that they would take care of it. I’m assuming that they signed for the lady who was suppose to have sign the car over almost a year prior! So technically, I’ve paid my car off maybe two times finally was able to refinance it almost 2 years ago and still owe about 75% of what I was supposed to pay for it after being toyed around having to re-apply for a loan, my credit being ran so many times, and then driving around the car and losing value on it, and not really earning on my investment! I hate this place!
Whoa. What an incredible story! You should file a complaint with the Attorney General, who is already looking into Red Rock’s business practices. The link to the online complaint form is here: Reference Report ##00040709
I bought a used Elantra in 2017. Paperwork was all fine BUT only because I took my mother who is a finance director with Toyota. I did look at car before it went to be detailed. I also hired a mechanic to look it over prior to me agreeing to buy. Once it went back to detail, I asked the salesperson 3 times if it had cruise. He assured me it did. My bad for taking his word. Due to it almost being end of month I did let them pressure me into agreeing to home delivery after it was detailed. It took almost 8 hours of haggling. It was delivered at 1650 on a Friday. Saturday at 0800 I got in to go hike and it had no fuel and I could not find cruise. By 0900 I called to complain. They offered to take it back for same price in exchange for one 3 years older and 60k miles. I refused. I did file complaints and made reviews but never heard anything back.
How are these dealerships still in business? Isn’t this criminal behavior? Shouldn’t they be shut down? It’s amazing to me that they are allowed to remain open. Unbelievable and inexcusable that they are continued to be allowed to get away with this. I would hate to be those employers/owners and have to give account for their dealings come judgment day! How do they live with themselves????
You can send your opinion about this to Dale Sundeen, Investigator, Colorado Department of Revenue Auto Industry Division, 632 Market St., Suite G-3,
Grand Junction, CO 81506. He can submit it to the Dealer Board, which makes decisions regarding dealer licenses. They take into consideration whether a dealership is good or bad for a community.
Each of the people in your article should be encouraged to contact the corporate offices of the car brand they bought, make the corporate office aware of the multitude of deceptive practices from every Tim Dahl/Red Rock lot. Let corporate pull the plug on the licenses of selling those brands. It not only reflects on the sales lot but on the brand, i.e. honda, nissan, kia, gmc, etc. It would take away their ability to sell new cars of that brand and leave them to sell used only.
It would then give opportunity for reputable owners to bring a lot back for the brands.
I did contact Honda about my lease buy-out experience with Red Rock Honda. The corporate position was total “hands off”. Honda made it quite clear that dealers are independent operators who are free to charge whatever the market will bear no matter how they go about doing that.
Avoid this dealership at all costs. It’s not what the Jim Fuoco organization made it to be. It’s completely commercialized, stereotypical “salesmen” working with a “sales manager” who barely hit his 21st birthday but sure can attempt to swindle people with the best of em.
I ordered my Denali Ultimate as the first pre order that Jim Fuoco GMC was allotted in December of 2021. I was given a price range of 81-83k upon placing the order. In March of 2022, Jim Fuoco GMC was purchased by Red Rock Auto Group. I was informed of the ownership change but not informed of the purchase requirement changes. In May of 2022, my truck was delivered. Upon arrival, I went to the dealership to check it out and get the purchase process started. In that time I learned that Red Rock requires a mandatory additional purchase of a $9,000 (pre-tax) extended protection plan to cover cosmetics. I learned of the extended protection plan due to being told I needed to agree to an extended protection plan (without being told the price) in order to test drive my new truck. I absolutely didn’t want this, I didn’t request this, it was not included in my price range I received from Fuoco and I received no notice of this change until I went to buy the truck I waited six months for. Through extended discussions with the sales manager, I learned that there was no possibility that they would budge on this and the price of my truck (due to their requirement) had gone up over 10k. I felt cheated, I felt scammed, I felt like there was back door motives and I felt like I should have known about this long before the trucks arrival. Long story short the deal did not go through and I am now working with a dealership outside of my residence to purchase a new truck. I will not step foot on that con-artist of a dealership again. I will not have my current GMC’s serviced there ever again. I will make certain that anyone I talk to and every opportunity I get to tell someone how my terrible experience with Red Rock went and to steer clear of their hidden motives. I am extremely disappointed that this is what my local GMC dealership has become and social media is going to be aware of that from every channel. On top of all the rest, they couldn’t figure out how to refund my reservation fee, so I also got my $100 ripped off by this corrupt dealership. I look forward to continuing my purchase of a 2022 Sierra, but am traveling far away from Red Rock to do so.
Also, I spoke to college of mine who dealt with the unexpected charge- she argued and refused to pay for them and ultimately had them waived. She’s a blonde haired blue eyed attorney and these clowns made sure to keep her happy.
Since leaving this review on their Facebook page they have disabled the function to view the “star rating” as well as read reviews on the Facebook page.
I traded a truck in last December, paid an extra $10,000 above sticker price for “market adjustment”. It took me calling and fighting with them for 3 months to get my traded in truck paid off…during that 3 months I made payments on both vehicles to keep my credit good. It took over 6 months to get a refund check from them for the 3 extra payments on my traded in truck.
Thank you for helping out Anne. You have such a good heart. ❤️
When we arrived home with our used Jeep from Red Rock Hyundai, I had a chance to read the documents we had signed in the finance guy’s IPad.
Lo and behold, we were charged for two warranty items we werent apprised of .
I called the dealership immediately and said I wanted a refund. The finance guy said he’d have to talk to his manager and he’d call me back…which he didn’t. So I called him.
Much hemming and hawing ensued until he agreed to cut me a check the next day.
When I arrived, he told me that he could only refund one charge, but the oil change thingy would have to remain. I let him know that I wouldn’t be leaving without both refunds.
He made at least three trips out to see the manager as I sat in his office for 45 minutes. Finally I went out to the manager’s desk and saw only the salesmen who had been hanging out during the days we had been shopping. I doubt there is an actual manager in the store.
Any way…through perseverance, raising my voice and much embarrassment on my husband’s part, we got our money back.
I actually feel sorry for the young men who are working there and who are being taught this is the way to sell cars.
Hi Alice, thanks for your story. It is yet another example of the “IPad tactic” the Red Rock and Tim Dahle dealerships use to trick customers out of more money. If the dealership had you sign on the IPad without ever showing you what they affixed your signature to, and if they did not show you your contract in full before you left the dealership (i.e., they never showed them to you on the computer screen or gave you a hard copy and instead just handed them to you on a USB drive before you left), whether or not you got a refund I urge you to contact the Mesa County D.A. Consumer Protection Unit at (970) 244-1730 and tell them your story, AND file a complaint online with the Colorado Attorney General’s Consumer fraud division at https://www.stopfraudcolorado.gov/about-consumer-protection/report-fraud.html. Misusing your electronic signature without your knowing or your permission to make you pay for more extras than you knew about or intended to buy could be a crime, e.g. fraud and/or criminal impersonation. Please don’t lie down and take it. Help us put an end to this fraudulent behavior by these dealerships.
They did provide a hard copy, which is how I saw what they did.
The tactic is to keep you there for hours waiting for “finance” to generate the paperwork.
Then you go to this little office where they try to sell you extended warranties, which we refused.
Then the guy starts scrolling through all these documents at breakneck speed. That’s where they hid the two one year warranties which came to $1149
I agree with one of your commenters…always demand a paper contract to sign.
We had our fun share of times at Red Rock Nissan ourselves this year. Bought our car back in April. It turned out to be a lemon. There are no obvious lemon laws in Colorado, but there are a few federal protections and a few consumer protection laws here.
We wound up contacting the Attorney General, who reached out to Nissan and kind of lit a fire under their asses.
They wound up replacing the transmission, transfer case, and a bunch of other parts on the car because the warranty told them they were all things that had been wrong with the car prior to our purchase. And they had told us the car had not thrown any codes or anything when we were asking about the car. A total lie.
The car still isn’t quite right. We only get 10-15 miles per gallon, and before the replacement parts the car was getting 20 miles to the gallon. Which is evidenced in its history in the little computer it has.
Such a fucking hassle. Pardon my language, but it really was a nightmare. They had the car for *months* (about 4) and lied to us about so many things. For example, they told us the warranty had not yet sent an inspector out when we had asked (month 2/3 roughly). But when we called the warranty company, they had sent one out within the first couple weeks.
Before we managed to convince them to *fix* the car for us without charging us (the AG helped with that, and some advice from a local lawyer I had contacted) they tried to rope us into *another* vehicle that was *worse*. With a bigger loan (our old loan wrapped into it well), monthly payments twice as much, and more shady crap that I’ll leave out of here for now.
My parents were fortunate that I was able to research and reach out to an attorney, and that we didn’t have to actually use the attorney to the point of paying for their services. We’re still not happy with the work done, but really don’t trust them to figure out why the gas mileage is worse now. It should be better with a new transmission and other parts, not worse. We’ve taken it to a local mechanic that we trust, Scotty’s, and they said they can’t figure out what the problem is. Auto Zone managed to pull a code for us once, something about the oxygen fuel-injector being too rich. Don’t remember the code off the top of my head. But for some reason Scotty’s couldn’t pull the code themself, so they said they couldn’t do anything. That was frustrating. If anyone reading this knows a mechanic that might be able to solve the issue for us, feel free to respond to this comment. I have notifications turned on for responses.
If there is ever a class action lawsuit against them as well, absolutely count us in. It seems like there are enough people that have been swindled by them that it would absolutely be valid.
I am one of the fleeced sheep at RedRock Nissan. I recently purchased a used Frontier, and there seems to be big problems in getting a title. It appears that there is an attempt at title laundering by changing a title from less than clear which is needed for retail sale. According to the local DMV threre is clearly something illegal going on and a lawyer may be necessary. The case has been forwarded to the State Attorney General and the Customer Fraud Division. Shakespeare would call RedRock Nissan “a den of theives.”
Thanks for forwarding the case to the A.G. Fraud Division.
I also had an issue with Red Rock Honda. My vehicle was coming off the lease, and I wanted to purchase it. Red Rock insisted that it could only be done through a dealer, and that I’d have to purchase their “forever warranty”. Their fee for this was going to be nearly $1900. As some (but not all?) know, one does NOT have to go through a dealer to buyout a lease and one does NOT have to buy an extended warranty. I bought my vehicle through Honda Finance, paid the taxes at DMV and paid $7.20 to change the title. $7.20 vs nearly $1900. You have to wonder how many get fooled?
Jack, PLEASE file a complaint with the Colorado Department of Revenue’s Auto Industry Division, which particularly focuses on fraud in dealerships.”Filing a Complaint – Auto Industry Division | DOR SBG” https://sbg.colorado.gov/filing-a-complaint-auto-industry-division
I did consider filing a complaint as you suggest, and I did go to the CO link as well as the DA’s link that you provided. In looking at those links, it seemed to me that I’d have to have an actual example of fraud that would be actionable in order for them to move forward. In my case, I figured out the situation before losing any money. Also, my interactions with Red Rock were mostly via phone for which I have no transcript. What I did do was file a complaint with Honda’s corporate offices. I provided them with my details as well as the emails that I had from Red Rock. What they do about it now is up to them.
I did hear back from Honda corporate. They apologized for whatever inconvenience I may have experienced, but went on to say a) dealerships are independently owned, b) dealerships are welcome to add markups based upon what the dealer believes customers will be willing to pay, and c) my case is closed. As disappointing as this response is, it is a surprise to no one! Isn’t capitalism grand?
I learned at a very young age to steer clear of dealerships because of all the added cost of buying a vehicle. I’ve always stuck to my belief in taking my time to search locally on Craigslist for a used Toyota with no more than a two-owner history and low mileage. This has paid off as I’ve not had to deal with used car salespeople and the worry if being swindled out of extra money. I simply take my time searching for what I want, check blue book values and make sure to run a car fax vehicle history. I would not have learned any of this, however, if I hadn’t been taken so badly at a young age. I also like not having to worry about vehicle breakdowns and the cost of dealing with that, so for me, Toyota vehicles fit the bill. I bought my 2014 Camry three years ago from an older retired gentleman in Fruita for $9,100 and the blue book says it’s worth $10,100 right now. I hope to have this vehicle for another 10-15 years, just like I had with my last Craigslist Toyota. So many lessons in life to learn.
Not sure how many degrees of separation the corporate auto makers are from The Dalhe Duo but I would think the corporate entities would not dig this growing , damaging PR situation.
As this scandal develops, I am sorry too that the Dahle Duo’s dishonesty, greed, schemer/scammer mentality could lead to overall job loss of their employees who retain integrity.
I just referred someone to the DA’s office for a deceptive transaction with Red Rock Nissan forcing them into a 2K extended warranty upon buyout of a lease when the original contract did not provide for a warranty. Thank you for you research.
Hi Sue, please also have this person fill out this complaint form with the Colorado Department of Revenue’s Auto Industry division: “Filing a Complaint – Auto Industry Division | DOR SBG” https://sbg.colorado.gov/filing-a-complaint-auto-industry-division
Thanks Anne for your expenditure of time and effort to research and bring to light the systematic malfeasance of Tim Dahle and his tainted bundle of businesses. Let us do all that is legal and ethical to remove his grifting dealerships from our community.
Yes, Anne, great job and invaluable public service. Here’s hoping the DA’s office and other law enforcement keep their eyes on these guys.
Wow! Great investigative reporting above and beyond the call Anne. Thank you for holding power to account…whether its a dealership or an elected official. You rock!
There is a lien sing board for auto dealers. They rarely take much action, but these cases are so extreme, they might act and suspend the dealers’ licenses.
Thank you for this! I left a review months ago as they tried to swindle me, too. However, I sold cars for several years and knew how it all worked. I kept asking to see prices and they would never show them. Once I left, the salesperson texted me and when I responded and asked that they stop, the sales manager then continued to text me and basically called me a liar. Seriously THE WORST dealership in the world
My husband and I had discussed how something seemed off about Red Rocks’ sudden acquisition of several dealerships in the valley, so did some research when we set out to buy a new car a couple months ago. Thankfully, their low ratings, reviews, and word of mouth told us all we needed to know about how RR operates and we deliberately opted for a dealership outside of their chain.
Thank you, Anne, and all those who have spoken out about RR. I’m truly sorry for what they have gone through and am grateful their voices helped us make an informed, safe financial decision.
Yes, everyone, please pay attention to the reviews. Filter for the lower-starred reviews and read people’s experiences about why they gave the dealerships low ratings. There are a lot of common threads there. I also noticed Yelp flagged an inordinate number of positive reviews, saying they didn’t conform to their terms of service, so I think a lot of the positive reviews could have been planted by people affiliated with the dealerships.
I saw several reviews from employees. One being Justin Gedstad, who was working one of the days I went in to look at vehicles.
Thanks for that info. It confirms the suspicion that positive reviews are being written by employees.
Wondering if such deception carries over to Red Rock vehicle service centers.
Should users of say, Red Rock Honda service be concerned? I am now.
Yes, there are a huge number of complaints about Red Rock and Tim Dahle’s service and finance departments, too, and I understand there’s been a wholesale change of personnel since Fuoco Honda and the other Fuoco dealerships were bought by Red Rock. Lots of complaints about service at Red Rock/Tim Dahle dealerships about botched oil changes, getting overcharged for maintenance and repairs, people getting charged for maintenance they were led to believe was included when they bought the vehicle, and repairs not done competently.
The service department is corrupt as well. ihad service done on my Nissan Frontier to flush fluids and replace. i didnt do them all at once because of the cost and wanted to continue doing business at Fuocos as yhey sold me the truck. I had some of the service done at each dealership. After Fuoco’s sold to Red Rock I returned to the Nissan portion of the dealership to have an oil change. A service rep meets me upon arrival to pickup my truck and tells me my vehicle is overdue for services that were supposedly performed months earlier. When I asked to see his computer records for the services performed he said it didnt show they had been completed. I had the receipts in the glovebox so I told him I was done with Nissan as I had lost my trust in them. I left and before I got home a manager called me to ask what they could do to get my business back. I told her that either I paid for service that had not been performed or they were trying to rip me off by saying they were going to do it again. I havent been back and would never recommend anyone go there for any reason.
Excellent service to our community, Anne. Thanks to you, Mr. Acevedo and the Mondragons this behavior is being made public.
WOW! What an effort this took and it is disgusting – really disgusting. Would be hard to determine just how many crimes have been committed. If charges were filed this crap would maybe stop.
Thanks for finding all the facts and for the courage to warn us about the Red Rock dealerships.
Thanks, Martin. The people who found themselves victims of these scams felt strongly that they wanted to warn other people by letting them know what had happened to them.
thanx anne — glad we purchased from tony f before whatever da phukk happened ~